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 mojoMMX |
#21 | |||
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Posts: 20 06/18/2008 9:20 PM |
PHS82 wrote: This comes to mind as I read the thread. There was a tone of speculation after a bad scrimmage game last year. Everybodies question will be answered come
fall. |
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notremojo |
#22 | |||
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Posts: 27 06/19/2008 2:27 AM |
I just graduated so I am not new to these parts. What I would like to say that traditions are nice to have, but not being allowed to start our own traditions
without being constantly scrutinized is frustrating for all parties.
mojoboat wrote:
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mojoboat |
#23 | |||
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Posts: 997 06/19/2008 10:37 AM |
I'm sorry notremojo, I'm not new to these mojo things either. I've had the honor of watching the Gold standard of high school band and high
school football, not just in Texas but the whole of the United States since 1961. The football team is working it's way back into that position. For a
short while a new football tradition was going on at Permian and that was one of mediocrity. The kids did what they knew how to do, as well as they could. In
football mediocrity is unacceptable at Permian. Parents and fans of Permian corrected it.
If there was ever any thing that excelled more at Permian than the football team it was the band. Fans would not leave their seats during half time and the band recieved standing ovations at every performance. Permians band was every bit as great and intimidating as the football team. I cannot describe how impressive the bands were. You must see, "The Golden Years" Permian High School Band 1959- 1972. Charles Nail carried that tradition on until he retired. Since Charles Nail left the band has had a new tradition. One of mediocracity. Now, IMO it's even fallen below that level. Today on a football field, Permians band can neither march or play, doing both is out of the question. The band sounds great in a concert hall. It's my belief that as long as some band in the state of Texas is the very best. I see no reason why Permian can't be that one or nearly so, every year. I won't ever accept that Permian band students are not as capable as any in the state. Would You? IMO You and Your peers have not been challenged, you were not pushed to the limit. If you think you were then IMO that the strength behind the challenge was not strong enough to see compliance of the challenge. If you flustration in forming a midiocre tradition seem futile just think what that must feel like to those who want You to be the best. Lastly, It's not the kid's and it was not You. You did as directed. The results were not the best or near the best. |
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ector61 |
#24 | |||
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Posts: 229 06/19/2008 11:04 AM |
mojoboat wrote:
Your Signature ... aka (mojo61)
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ector61 |
#25 | |||
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Posts: 229 06/19/2008 11:08 AM |
I got my quotes wrong: the first par. is a quote fm. Boat; I stated the 2nd par. I haven't achieved "excellence" in quoted matl. yet.
Your Signature ... aka (mojo61)
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VaporDrivenPantherFan |
#26 | |||
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Posts: 391 06/19/2008 4:27 PM |
mojoboat wrote:
If you are going to tell me that all of the bands from Nail's retirement on were mediocre, then I am 1.) going to take umbrage at that, and 2.) disagree with you. Ragsdale's bands were fantastic. I know. I was in them. We were pushed to a limit, and then beyond it. We'd do the spelling of "PANTHERS" 50 times in a row in practice, if that's what it took to get it right. We were there every morning before the football team, practicing our show/etc, regardless of "90 and sunny" or "-12 and snowing". I WILL agree that since Ragsdle's departure the system has gone downhill, and that they are currently FAR less than they can be. |
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mojoboat |
#27 | |||
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Posts: 997 06/19/2008 6:18 PM |
VaporDrivenPantherFan wrote: No need to take umbrage. I'll ask my wife what that means.You must cut me a little slack. It's when the present one showed up that I refer too. But we do see the same thing don't we?. |
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VaporDrivenPantherFan |
#28 | |||
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Posts: 391 06/23/2008 3:50 PM |
mojoboat wrote: With the current band, yes we do see the same thing.... |
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GrizzlyBlackCat |
#29 | |||
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Posts: 370 06/25/2008 5:38 AM |
Hey Boat, I just want to suggest that it's not just Odessa, ET or Katy - it's all over the country and the world - kids aren't the same as in the
50's nor can they be! Change is inevitable and a natural fact. Kids today, are growing up with a whole weight of pressures that kids in the 50's never
even heard of until they were probably in their 40's. In our day, kids really were kids. Today, sadly, our kids are miniature adults, having their
childhoods stolen from them by 2nd grade with responsibilities heaped upon their shoulders across the board from school to community and even to home,
sometimes, that I wish weren't the case. Case in point, my daughter was in 2nd grade when she burst into tears one day after school because we announced
that we were all going to the shopping mall. Why the tears? Because she had a report that was due the next day. 2nd grade? Cmon, ridiculous. I had words with
the school Principle and others to express my concern that our children were having their childhoods stolen from them. Anyway, this is only a suggestion
without going into all the who's, why's and where's.. that you are right - kids today are different from kids in the 50's. Wish they could have
what we had, how I wish it. But it's not to be. We need to support and encourage the kids today who worry about the price of gas and world war, in grade
school. Everything else is gravy.
Brothers on 3
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jodycpa |
#30 | |||
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Posts: 23 06/25/2008 8:39 PM |
Grizz,
You are very wise. Things are not the same. However, core values do not have to change. To strive for excellence is honorable. |
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mojoboat |
#31 | |||
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Posts: 997 06/26/2008 7:08 PM |
I guess, but in most areas my children were smarter than I and My grand children are a lot smarter than I. It could be a dilution think I suppose. Not
emphasied as it was. But whatever the reason as long as some band in this State wins State, I just wish it could be Permian. Even being the State Champ of not
very much, would be better IMO, than not much of not much.
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mojomomma |
#32 | |||
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Posts: 14 06/26/2008 11:18 PM |
I strongly disagree with this personal attack. I would imagine that if you look, you will find someone that would say the same things about Coach Allman. He
does not coach football the same as Gaines, Bartosh, or Wilkins, yet he is successful, evidenced by wins. Therefore, I say Watts does not march the same as
Nail, McIntosh or Ragsdale, however the success is still there. IMO, you do not know the effects of no more marching bands in the junior highs, decreasing
numbers, but increasing numbers of children coming from homes that do not value education! You do not know the children that Watts personally takes care of.
IMO that is SO MUCH more important than marching to YOUR standards. I can guarantee you that these students will remember the caring of Watts much more than
how they marched for YOU on a Friday night. How can you be so shallow? You do not know this man or you would not be saying these hurtful things.
AND for someone so consumed about excellence and Permian, you might want to learn how to SPELL PERMIAN!
Last Edited By: mojomomma 06/26/2008 11:24 PM.
Edited 1 time.
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mojoboat |
#33 | |||
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Posts: 997 06/27/2008 1:32 PM |
Allman is certainly different than any previous coach at Permian. So was Scott Smith, so was TJ Mills and so was Randy Mayes.The last three were part of and
contributed to, a failing system, who also dealt daily, with kids of changing values placed on education or work ethnic. Allman took the very same problems you
spoke of and responded with a repectable 12-1 record in his third year. The goals for band supporters or fans should be no less that that of football fans.
It's not, by evidence of those who support and defend the program as it exist today and will again in September.
Allman took a program that was in shambles, not due to any fault of the kids and rebuilt it. Our kids, both those in football and band are as capable as those from any ohter part of the state. Don't You believe that? This is a question. I'm not shelling our kids. Permian kids in band are capable of winning state. Don't you agree? I don't understand why supporters of the band director would settle for less. If the point of your support is to hit a low mark then The results have been achived. I've said many times that in concert the band is very good. In marching, they are terrible. If the the kids cannot be taught to march simply let them stay in the stands and play. People a laughing at what is an attempt to march and that upsets me to no end. I hate for kids to be made fun of for any reason. I reality, the laughs are at the product and not the kids efforts. Bands perform for people. Without people to listen, applaud and pay for, then there is no reason for a band. They had better play for fans other than the director, as he will only be around for three years of their lives. There must be greater reward than that of self satisfaction. The directors responsibility, I would think would be to develope the best band in Texas. If he is well liked, so much the better but But being well liked should not take priority over teaching to success or that of extreme achievement. Some highschool band in the State of Texas was the very best band in the State last year. As long as someone is going to be the best or near the top I see no reason why it can't be Permian. Can you understand this statement? |
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mojomomma |
#34 | |||
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Posts: 14 06/28/2008 10:21 PM |
Yes boat I do understand your desire for state in all things Permian. However, I dont understand some people going on here and very publicly slamming someone
who has invested 21 YEARS in the children of PHS. 21 YEARS! Coaches do not stay like that. Mike does not have the financial, personnel, and fan support that
football has - no other organization does. Yet you expect the same results with less support.
Mike and others take kids in their organizations that football has no place for and makes them part of something.....those kids are kids that are not the super stars, just kids wanting to belong. Kids that may not spell PANTHERS to your satisfaction, but are so happy being part of MOJO. Mike does achieve great things with these kids and they love him, I guess it doesnt matter what some people on here think, yet it seriously bothers me for someone to attack Mike when I see first hand the sacrifices that he has made for his kids.....yeah he scolds the kids and yeah he pushes them to be their best, but he knows that PHS band is not the be all and end all in their lives. With the way things are today, kids can not choose electives the way they could back in the day...very few football players in the band, orchestra, choir, etc....not enough time in their schedules. My support is not a low mark - very much the opposite, a high mark in supporting the kids with less and not to get the public accolades. You want to say how terrible they are at marching....I wonder how good PHS football would be with out junior high football...the way there is no marching in junior high. You are comparing apples to oranges. Yes they do compete and they pour their hearts and souls into it the same as football. There was no state competition for band last year - it is an every other year event....do you suppose that makes a difference also? hmmmm only state competition for football every other year? Dont you think the football players "perform" for people? Without fans - no reason for football - sounds kinda crazy, dont you think? Permian band is legendary throughout the state for their record....much of it compiled during Watts tenure, despite funding being cut year after year and many of his kids being pulled across town by the lure of "better academics" and "better programs". SO you see, I "settle" for nothing less than you do. The PHS band DOES accomplish great things and will continue to. |
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mojoboat |
#35 | |||
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Posts: 997 06/28/2008 11:17 PM |
I don't view those who play in band as cast offs from the football team. I view them as students who are as capable of being the best in Texas. As the
football kids. Do you think my concern is over just the last year. Last year was not the first year of my concern.The turn over in football coachs is frequent.
Do you what to know why? Well, they get fired for not winning football games or they move up in the ranks because they do win football games. From the pros
through college and down to high school. Football coachs are judged much more harshly than any others in education. The kids in band will find that after band,
after high school, they will judged more like football coachs are judged.
If you think that the Watts years are viewed in as high esteem statewide as those directors at Permian him before him you must look at old halftime and state marching contest. Those are available. They are not even in the same class. For gosh sakes the kids are getting laughed at.. Not by me, but they are getting laughed at. They can play but they can't come close to marching and they can't even play and march at the same time. How can you defend that? Permian football, IMO, did go through a period where the jr. high systems were failing them. People changed that. People that did not accept mediorocity. Band fans don't need to accept that either. Whether it's the system or the director or both the band students of ECISD are getting short changed. You must say that the parents/fans of the band are either failing to give the kids the proper tools to succeed or the kids are simply not capable of doing better. It's not the kids. You might consider getting with someone who is in charge of the choirs at Permian. They have it working.
Last Edited By: mojoboat 06/29/2008 9:26 AM.
Edited 1 time.
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mojofan74 |
Mr Watts | #36 | ||
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Posts: 2 06/29/2008 12:44 PM |
I have been a MOJO fan seems like all my life. I graduated there in 1974. I have not posted on here in many years, I just like to read. I read it every day, but today I have to state an opinion about Mr. Watts. I had a Neice and a Nephew that was in the Bonham band in the early 90's. During their time in the band I went to all the concerts that they had. I never knew Mr. Watts before this, but he was the band director at Bonham during this time. I was a witness to the performances at those concerts and I will tell you that they did not do well at all puting it nicely. They were lucky to get a 2. They consistently got 3's & 4's. It was horrible and I listened to the band kids make fun of Mr. Watts then. Then their last year he went to Permian to be a assistant band director there. Fortunatly for Bonham it was a blessing. The first year after Watts, Rusty Grey took over at the Band director at Bonham. My daughter was in the band his first year. I can tell you that their first concert scores was not nothing short of 1's. The Bonham band was totally different than the Watt's years. The numbers doubled during the Rusty Gray times!!! You people in the band now may defend Mr. Watts now but he is no comparison to the previous band directors at Permian. Now or never will. You would think that as long as he has been at it now that he would learn!!!! |
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ector61 |
#37 | |||
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Posts: 229 06/30/2008 10:33 AM |
Permian's marching band is pathetic (compared to the Per. bands of the glory yrs.). If that hurts anyone's ears, it should--it stinks to be lousy @
something you're trying to do. Back in the old days, that would mean that you would try harder, not make excuses (talking about the current powers-that-be,
not the kids). When Per. does poorly @ something, let's don't make excuses for it.
Your Signature ... aka (mojo61)
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mojomomma |
#38 | |||
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Posts: 14 06/30/2008 9:19 PM |
AGAIN! I tell you that marching has been COMPLETELY taken out of the junior highs. I wonder how great you would be at something you get to practice for 3
weeks before you have to perform in front of thousands of fans? You want the kids to give up their entire summer to march ....for someone who calls them
pathetic??? I am NOT making excuses, simply explaining the big picture. Apparently, I am wasting my time....and will not waste any more. It is so sad for
people to anonymously personally attack someone who has devoted 21 years of his life to the children of this district. You should be ashamed.
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odessapermian com |
#39 | |||
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Posts: 1230 06/30/2008 9:24 PM
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mojomomma wrote:A HUGE factor IMHO. I don't recall all the complaints about the band a few years ago. I think maybe not marching as freshmen is finally starting to take its toll. "Permian
Panthers- Goin' to ST8 in 2008"
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mojoboat |
#40 | |||
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Posts: 997 06/30/2008 9:50 PM |
SO DON"T MARCH AT HALF TIME OR PRE-GAME! SIT IN THE STANDS AND PLAY MUSIC THEY CAN DO THAT. Don't put something half baked, non-Permian like on the
field. It's not really the Marching they take on in life with them anyhow. IF IT CAN"T BE DONE RIGHT THEN HAVE THE MERCY TO NOT TO THROW MEDIOCRITY ON
THE FIELD WITH THE NAME PERMIAN ON IT.
But whatever you do, remember it's your/our kids, and You/Us are not giving them the tools (WHATEVER they need)to be successful and they are being made sport of each and every half time. The longer that condition exist the band will continue to lose members to a point that a post like this will not surface again. |
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. I can't do anything about the school board
